The Buddha said that in and out breathing are bodily and are thus bound up with the body (M. i. 301). In light of this, any practice or exercise dedicated to following the breath doesn’t lead to the transcendence of the corporeal body.
Still, with the mindfulness of in and out breathing while we are sitting in zazen the breather who seems attached to in and out breathing is not fundamentally bound up with the body although he or she might believe otherwise.
The breather is the mindfulness or recollection (sati) of before (parimukha) the breathing—not attention directed at the breath or simply following it. This is all very subtle. There is a shift from awareness of in and out breathing to awareness of before the breathing.
Although some might argue with me and say this is not the Buddha’s practice; rather it consists of putting our awareness around (pari) the mouth (mukha), I would argue that this is far too literal and still bound up with the body. Mindfulness or awareness has to be situated before the breathing which is not bodily. In other words, mindfulness stands before its object, namely, the breath and the body.
yeti; Perhaps you think that personal insults are an acceptable form of dialogue. I don’t, so I’ll leave this exchange. I wish you well.
Posted by: clyde | February 07, 2018 at 02:06 PM
Clyde:
Quoting Zennist now? More word games. This is futile, you are too stupid to understand even what you cut and paste. I won't waste my time with such childish nonsense. You didn't even put in the full quote which negates your position, but instead just cherry picked something you think you understand:
http://zennist.typepad.com/zenfiles/2010/09/grasping-emptiness-with-an-empty-mind.html
"IF ONE PASSES INTO EMPTINESS AND DENIES CAUSE AND EFFECT,
THEN GROSS AND RECKLESS, ONE INVITES CALAMITIES.
THIS IS THE MISTAKE OF ABANDONING EXISTENCE AND BEING ATTACHED TO EMPTINESS
JUST AS IF, TO ESCAPE DROWNING, ONE WERE TO LEAP INTO A FIRE.
SOME REJECT THE FALSE MIND TO GRASP TRUE PRINCIPLE, BUT THE MIND THAT GRASPS AND REJECTS IS INGENIOUS AND FRAUDULENT.
STUDENTS WHO DO NOT UNDERSTAND AND USE IT IN CULTIVATION.
REALLY ARE MISTAKING A THIEF FOR THEIR OWN SON.
DHARMA WEALTH IS LOST, AND MERIT AND VIRTUE DESTROYED,
DUE TO NOTHING ELSE THAN THE CONSCIOUS MIND,
THROUGH THE DOOR OF DHYANA THE MIND IS ENDED,
AND ONE SUDDENLY ENTERS THE POWERFUL, UNPRODUCED
KNOWLEDGE AND INSIGHT.
(Song of Enlightenment)
Posted by: n. yeti | February 06, 2018 at 10:03 AM
Here is another explanation of emptiness and its relationship to Mind:
“. . . Buddhahood is the awakening or recognition of Mind that is totally empty (devoid) of empty (i.e., unreal) illusory superimpositions—so totally empty of them that what Mind beholds of itself is sheer emptiness which is a signless state”
Posted by: clyde | February 06, 2018 at 12:19 AM
Clyde:
Sri Ramana Maharishi is pointing to both devotion and surrender to the highest self, which were core elements of his teachings. Sadly you don’t seem to know what you are quoting, at least based on your previous comments.
Regarding the destruction of non-reality and your previous comments about "emptiness", this is from the Shurangama Sutra Volume 8, Chapter 1:
"Due to the fault of false thinking and confusion about the truth, infatuation arises and makes your confusion all pervasive. Consequently, an emptiness appears. Worlds come into being as that confusion is ceaselessly transformed. Therefore, the lands that are not without outflows, as numerous as motes of dust throughout the ten directions, are all created as a result of confusion, dullness, and false thinking.”
In other words emptiness arises due to confusion. The commentaries say this means that even if you have penetrated to the emptiness of the five skandhas, as Avalokitesvara did, you still must cultivate.
Now as to your reference to the Assutava Sutta (“The Uninstructed”) SN 12.61, again let us look at the Shurangama Sutra Volume 3, Chapter 1, for guidance, and avoid the one-sided interpretations of the Theravadins.
"Ananda, you have not yet understood that all the defiling objects that appear, all the illusory, ephemeral characteristics, spring up in the very spot where they also come to an end. They are what is called ‘illusory falseness’. But their nature is in truth the bright substance of wonderful enlightenment.”
The commentaries explain falsehoods arise from a real substance, which is mind. Where there is any kind of phenomena at all, there is a division of this substance (e.g. the seer and the seen). Whereas the division is illusory, the substance is real.
(Vol. 3, Ch. 1): "Who would have thought that production, extinction, coming, and going are fundamentally the everlasting, wonderful light of the treasury of the Thus Come One, the unmoving, all pervading perfection, the wonderful nature of true suchness! If within the true and eternal nature one seeks coming and going, confusion and enlightenment, or birth and death, there is nothing that can be obtained."
Posted by: n. yeti | February 02, 2018 at 06:50 AM
@Pythagoras; I initially missed your post about the Taoists sect which seeks to “destroy confusion”. I don’t think that’s at odds with Ramana Maharishi’s quote. Since what is destroyed is what hides reality, what is destroyed is not real - so nothing is destroyed, yet confusion ceases.
“When this is, that is.
From the arising of this comes the arising of that.
When this isn't, that isn't.
From the cessation of this comes the cessation of that.”
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.061.than.html
Posted by: clyde | February 01, 2018 at 02:28 AM