Q: What were your philosophical views before you decided to study Zen Buddhism.
A: I think at that time during the early 1960s I was still searching for something meaningful. So I experimented—read some books; even a little Aristotle, but wasn’t moved. It was with Zen Buddhism that I found what I was looking for. And the reason why is that, oddly, I could understand and not understand Zen. It wasn’t a love/hate affair. It was more like Zen was speaking to something profound in me but I didn’t know what the heck it was at the time! Let me say that I was not your philosophical sort of guy. Zen seemed to be pointing to something much deeper than philosophy—at least modern philosophy. That depth I wanted to know. I wanted to see what these Zen masters saw who saw what the Buddha saw. During my stay with my Zen teacher who was an Abbot whose temple had just been recently consecrated by Primate Takashina Rosen, the head of the whole Soto sect in Japan, I came to learn a little more about Zen, especially about keeping a vigilant awareness at all levels of my daily life in the temple. From making a robe to gardening (my teacher was also a master gardener) keeping my mind on the task at hand laid the foundation for meditation. It was with the discovery of the Lankavatara Sutra in the temple library that I began to see through the fog.
Q: I have read a little of the Lankavatara Sutra, but what about it, in particular, caught your attention?
A: I think it was seeing the word Mind on almost every page! I then began to connect the dots. The word Mind appeared not only in the Lankavatara Sutra but in The Sutra of Wei Lang (or Hui Neng) that was in our small temple library. So here is this Chinese guy, Hui-neng who says that the Essence of Mind which is the seed of enlightenment is pure by nature. Isn’t that interesting? I learned that this essence is what I need to know. But at that time, I didn’t put my heart and soul in trying to uncover it. I still had a few years to go. I figured that my Zen teacher knew it and that I would eventually learn what it was. (How wrong I was about that!)
Q: But you did the usual zazen practice, right?
A: Yes, but nothing formal like in a major Zen temple in San Francisco. For me it was nice to sit in zazen. That way I could escape from always having to be aware of everything I did, getting called on the carpet for my screw ups! All the zazen I did, however, brought me no closer to the Mind which Hui-neng, the Sixth Patriarch, was talking about, and the Mind in the Lanka. Speaking for myself now, if I had a student and I knew what I knew now he would hear about Mind every day. I would drum it into him (or her) that realizing Mind’s incredibly pure nature is the name of the game. Unfortunately, not hearing my Zen teacher explain Mind is when I began to realize that the Zen institution might be missing something in a huge way. Without having any insight into this Mind, as a monk I had become something like a Zen actor. As the Chinese put it, I had become a Zen coat hanger. This didn’t set will with me including the fact that my Zen teacher had fallen in love with the senior monk. The senior monk eventually quit which drove my teacher to drink one too many beers.
Q: Did you keep up your quest to discover Mind’s pure nature?
A: It was always at the back of my mind. After my teacher and I had a falling out, I was free to deepen my knowledge about Zen Buddhism. More and more I had begun to firmly believe that a profound realization is required to really know Zen Buddhism and what its mysterious koans were pointing towards. Incidentally, D.T. Suzuki’s book, Studies in the Lankavatara Sutra, was a big help to me because it covered some of the early history on the formation of Zen in addition to providing a more in depth look at the Sutra, itself. I quickly found out that modern Western philosophy knew of no such depth. This was a new world to me. I had no desire to look at this world through the spectacles of the West.
Q: Do you think that this is the problem with the West’s approach to Zen Buddhism?
A: It seems like it to me. The West is either religiously oriented or it is materialistic. Those who disagree with me the most hate religion in general which to me makes them materialists. Then I try to explain to them that Zen Buddhism and Buddhism, in general, are not a religion in which one worships some divine being. Buddhism is mystical and Zen is the path Buddhism provides by which to realize our true nature or pure Mind. In this respect, it is more of a mystical science. By realizing our true nature we also realize the essence of the universe.
Q: So what if the West doesn’t buy the mystical? What becomes of Zen Buddhism?
A: Then there is no crossing over to the other shore. This entire world including the body we perceive the world through is this shore—not the other shore. All of our thoughts, all of our feelings about our loved ones is this shore—including birth and death. Even going to a Zen monastery or becoming a Buddhist monk or nun is all on this shore. It makes no difference what we do if we do not begin to cross over which is what the mystical path is really about. Remember, nirvana is unconditioned and supermundane. This is pretty mystical stuff. It sure as hell is not of this world. Western scholars, for the most part, seem to want to revise the teachings of the Buddha—turn the teaching into something mundane instead of supermundane which it is. If you want to know what will become of Zen Buddhism these days, it has already happened. It has become Dogen Zen. It’s all about sitting or doing concentrated just sitting. But the Buddha never taught this. He never transmitted a “sitting doctrine”. In the Zen literature it says that he transmitted Mind. Mind, for want of a better definition, is purely animative. We don’t see it because it is so clear that there doesn’t see to be anything. But for those of us who have seen the clear Mind, it is quite real and powerful. It is what animates us. It blinks my eyes, twirls a flower, lifts up a staff, says Mu.
Q: Do you believe the West is ready for Zen Buddhism the way you explain it?
A: Probably not. The West is looking for a quick fix, and sitting in meditation seems to be it for now. Got a problem? Just sit. Problem won’t go away? Sit more. I admit that sitting will cause a placebo effect. That’s okay. I have great respect for the placebo effect. But it won’t take you to the other shore. It won’t open your eyes of flesh to see pure Mind which transcends flesh.